Вход на сайт

Просмотр новости

Найдите то, что Вас интересует

Infinity and 0 (null set) do not exist

Дата публикации: 09-05-2026 23:44:06



Основное содержимое страницы с новостью.

Skip to main content
  • Level: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter MDH72
  • Start date Start date May 8, 2026
MDH72
Messages
2
Reaction score
1
The statement, "An infinite perimeter can be contained in a finite circle," I believe to be true. I can grasp the concept presented. What I can not, or maybe refuse, to conceptualize is an infinite perimeter. If a path of fractaling is used as a method of increasing perimeter length, eventually the length of an individual new section of the perimeter will have been reduced to the width, or diameter, of a hydrogen atom. Soon, a new perimeter leg will be no longer than an electron.

That is all fine and good. Quantum mechanics can deal with that, so I am told. But I have to reason that there will be a fundamental particle of which nothing else is smaller. When that dimension is reached, perimeter expansion is halted at a finite value. It seems sacrilege to suggest that notion to those that need infinite or infinitesimal values to complete a working equation.

For whatever reason, let's say that the gravitational force of a single grain of sand is in an equation. If the value is considered infinitesimal, and assigned zero, the equation or formula dies there and is useless. The reciprocal is true in that any equation that contains infinity is invalid. That is my opinion anyway and maybe those undefined values are compensated for and this theory is ancient. Just curious.

Discussion
DaveC426913
Gold Member
2025 Award
Messages
24,698
Reaction score
9,106
You are conflating mathematics and physics.

Pure mathematics is not dependent on the size of atoms. That circle you speak of does not have to exist in the real world. It has no size.

If you think the gravitational influence of an entire grain of sand (about 1019 (10 billion billion) atoms is considered zero, you're gonna be real surprised when you hear about the gravitational influence of a single atom of silicon, or an electron.
Probably best to read up on these matters first and form opinions later.
Curiosity is a good thing.
Science Advisor
Homework Helper
Messages
9,609
Reaction score
4,832
Mentor
Messages
38,152
Reaction score
10,760

Indeed. Physics is constrained to entities that can actually exist. Objects in mathematics do not have these limitations. A line can have a thickness of zero, unlike any such figure you draw with even the finest pen or pencil.
It is already true in mathematics that the infinity symbol is not allowed to appear in any mathematical expression or equation. If we say that some expression has an infinite value, we are really saying that it can be made arbitrarily large in the limit.

BTW, I take issue with the thread title -- "Infinity and 0 (null set) do not exist"
While it is true that infinity does not exist, zero certainly does, as it accurately describes the number of pink flamingoes in my front yard. Also, zero and the null set are not the same things.

Science Advisor
Homework Helper
Messages
9,609
Reaction score
4,832
bob012345
Gold Member
Messages
2,432
Reaction score
1,116
Mentor
Messages
15,819
Reaction score
10,711
Science Advisor
Homework Helper
Gold Member
2025 Award
Messages
29,902
Reaction score
21,780
There are several uses of term "infinite", "infinity", or the symbol ##\infty## in mathematics. The natural numbers, for example, is an infinite set. In this case, countably infinite.

All mathematics demands is that things are well-defined. In that sense, infinite is just as meaningful as finite.

Science Advisor
Education Advisor
Messages
3,212
Reaction score
3,841
I think that is overstating, see, e.g.

$$\frac \pi 4 = \sum_{k=0}^\infty \frac {(-1)^k} {2k+1}$$

Oops, it seems @jedishrfu beat me to this idea

Mentor
Messages
38,152
Reaction score
10,760
OmCheeto
Gold Member
Messages
2,538
Reaction score
3,665
What about fractional pink flamingo? If a pink flamingo were to die on your front lawn today, would it no longer be a pink flamingo? It might be a 'dead' pink flamingo, but that's just an added adjective. Just like we're all breathing in molecules of Caesar's last breath, IMHO, your front yard is littered with less than whole number pink flamingo.

But given the topic, and I'm not a mathematician; how do mathematicians deal with the fact that even though much of the universe is ruled logarithmically, there exists no 'zero' in logarithmic math?

as alway, OKTDIABMTAS

Science Advisor
Homework Helper
Messages
9,609
Reaction score
4,832
Science Advisor
Education Advisor
Messages
3,212
Reaction score
3,841
OmCheeto
Gold Member
Messages
2,538
Reaction score
3,665
OKTDIABMTAS = OK To Delete Infract And Ban, My Thoughts Are Saved

Did you never have a run-in with ZapperZ?
I was almost banned for the content of my very first post.

I still have no idea why I haven't been banned.
@Danger once said that my comments, while not scientifically correct, might make for a great science fiction novel. I'm going with that.

Admin
Messages
69,791
Reaction score
25,647

Схожие новости

#Наименование новостиТональностьИнформативностьДата публикации
1Is infinity a necessary concept?01031-07-2026
2What if 0 is special?01016-09-2026
3A neat fact regarding Cauchy problems for infinite systems01024-04-2026
4The natural numbers and logical consequences of them01003-06-2026
50030-09-2026
6Age problem from Mathematical Conundrums01026-06-2026
7Interesting math problem that I saw on-line024.2906-10-2026
8Nuda propiedad01002-10-2026
9Dudas existenciales01001-10-2026
10Nuda propiedad01002-10-2026

Классификация: . Схожих патентов: 0. Схожих новостей: 10. Тональность: 0. Информативность: 10. Источник: www.physicsforums.com.