Terry Gerton The OPM new rule about RIFs is now in effect. When NARFE looks at that, what are the biggest concerns you have now that it’s ready to go?

John Hatton Well, it changes the system to prioritize performance ratings over tenure in the decision about who gets let go in a reduction in force action. And, you know, reasonable minds can differ about whether that or tenure is the best approach. We don’t have a major issue with using performance more in that process. We still remain concerned about the administration’s overall approach to undermining merit-based civil service protections, and with that, the potential for retaliation in ratings and in RIFs, targeting people not based on actual performance, but based on politics or some criteria that’s not really tied to the mission of the organization. And so there’s always that potential that that undermines through this performance rating. That undermines the merit-based principles in some way, but shifting to some more performance ratings within the overall system is one of a few different options you can go to.

Terry Gerton What will you be watching in implementation of the rule to convince you maybe that they do have an objective process in mind here?

John Hatton I think we’ll need to see first what they’re doing with performance ratings overall and whether we’re seeing evidence of political favoritism in the issuance of different performance ratings of people during the appraisal process. And so in combination with this rule, they’ve also previously changed the performance rating system to remove a ban on forced distribution. So you may have a lot less people getting the highest rating in the system. I think that would be the step one. So is there a groundwork being laid to remove people in the future? Two, you know, my hope is that we are not seeing a large amount of RIFs in the near future because there were so many last year. You know, there was a prohibition on additional RIFs passed at the resolution of the shutdown that was negotiated into the CR by Senator [Tim] Kaine (D-VA). That formally lasted the remainder of the CR. I think there’s a bit of potentially an understanding that they wouldn’t do major RIFs through the rest of the fiscal year. I don’t know if we will see a renewal of additional RIF actions coming into this next fiscal year or next year. My hope is no, but I think we’ll have to see, you know, how it plays out in implementation if they go forward with RIFs, and that’s not, given how significant the downsizing was in 2025, I’m not sure that’s a foregone conclusion.

Terry Gerton You connected, in a really important way, the changes to the performance management system and the way that performance ratings now play into the RIF system. What are you hearing from NARFE members? Are they concerned about how this is shaping up?

John Hatton Yeah, I think there’s some potential concern on ease. And I think, I don’t think we’ve heard a chorus of concerns from our members, but I think how it plays out and how people are rated on their performance during appraisals I think will be the telltale sign of getting a sense of if people are feeling that their ratings are completely unfair or politicized. And so until we see that, it’s hard to say. I think we’re just kind of a wait and see on how that’s implemented and certainly with the underlying concern that it could be abused.

Terry Gerton Well, speaking of member concerns, the last time we chatted we were talking about the president’s pay plan, which had a pay freeze for civilian employees. What are you hearing about that now?

John Hatton Well, if the formal alternative pay plan was issued at the end of August, that was in line with the president’s previous budget request on federal pay to keep pay frozen, but Congress doesn’t have to go along with that. And certainly there are some in Congress pushing for some reasonable pay increase. The president has provided 3.8% to law enforcement. The House NDA is looking at a 5 to 7% sliding scale for military pay. The baseline from the most recent change in private sector wages and salaries is 3.6. So something like 3. 6 or 3.8, I think is a very reasonable number to push for. It’s based on objective criteria, not a kind of pie in the sky hope. That obviously would need to be negotiated into the appropriations bills. We have a CR until December 11th. What happens post-election, very much uncertain right now, whether they even get to an omnibus or appropriations bills then, or kick the can down the road later. Even if it is kicked down, can is kicked to January or February or March of next year, there is precedent for retroactive pay increases. Obviously sooner than later would be great. Certainly it’s an effort here to encourage members of Congress to provide some modest pay increase when they pass those appropriations bills.

Terry Gerton John Hatton is staff vice president of the National Active and Retired Federal Employees Association. John, let’s turn to a slightly different sensing session. NARFE just wrapped up its national conference. What did you hear from members there? What issues kept coming up?

John Hatton Well, one of the things that we do in tandem with our national conference is we kind of prep on the advocacy side for the year ahead. And we always we have a process by which we solicit member views of what issues and policies do we support. What do we oppose that goes through an advocacy committee process and is approved by our board. So I thought, you know, what people submit for changes, what they want us to focus on is always insightful in that process. And I thought there was a — our members looking at and being concerned with the responsible use of artificial intelligence in government, you know, not against use of Artificial Intelligence, but making sure it’s not undermining due process or access to benefits, things like automated denial of benefits and things like that. So adding something to our program or the positions that our members endorse on AI was included. I also heard a lot from people worried about Social Security solvency. And so, whether you’re under the older system and have a little bit of a Social Security benefit or under the newer system and that’s a bigger part of your retirement, we’ve had a lot of concerns with people as the trust fund reaches its solvency about maintaining those benefits moving forward at the rate they are, ensuring that that program, Social Security, is there for themselves and future generations. So I would say those are the big two things that kind of stood out to me as things that people were concerned about. Beyond everything that we think about in terms of threats to benefits and merit-based civil service and pay, those two things I think kind of were a little bit more noteworthy to hear.

Terry Gerton And so how will that shape NARFE’s advocacy agenda for the coming year?

John Hatton So we develop priorities ahead of every kind of two-year period, and so we’ll definitely take what we hear from members, and our leaders or volunteer leaders are the ones who show up at the conference and make those recommendations as we try to assess our priorities and what we focus on. And so, you know, I think it’s good to remind audiences that this is a joint process. What we do is not just the staff here in the DC area, but it’s really a nationwide effort of our organization. We had more than 400 leaders that came across from every state in the country that are part of this. We really rely on them to be a voice in their local community. And the organization itself and the federal community relies on people joining organizations like NARFE and unions and other groups to be part of the political process. And without that, without people joining, without people being part of these groups, we can’t be effective at all.

Terry Gerton We typically, John, talk about your agenda here in Washington with federal lawmakers in Congress. They haven’t spent a lot of time in town lately, so who are you getting to answer the email or the door when you knock?

John Hatton Well, you know, the staff is still in town generally, you know, if you’re talking about building up for the next year or prepping to see what happens in December. But it’s a slower time of year in August and it’ll be a slower time a year in October as well, when people go back and campaign for elections. So we do, we always kind of, we balance different things. I was busy in August with our national conference and we’ll be busy on the political side as well leading up to the election. But a little bit slower on the legislative side when things shut down.