By Jake Bourke

Universal Pictures’ Wicked: For Good is the second part of director Jon M. Chu’s adaptation of the 2003 Wizard of Oz-inspired stage musical, Wicked. Taking place five years after the end of Part 1, Wicked: For Good delves deeper into the relationship between Elphaba (Cynthia Erivo) and Glinda (Ariana Grande) as they fall into their respective roles as the Wicked Witch of the West and Glinda the Good. All the while, the world of Oz experiences its own wickedness, with both the kingdom and the Wizard (Jeff Goldblum) becoming fraught with paranoia and corruption.

Like any good musical, Chu places great emphasis on the aural experience of Wicked: For Good, achieving a delicate balance where the audio is just as rich and plentiful as the visuals. However, this sound extends beyond the Broadway-caliber songs performed by the film’s cast. The sound design and Foley — from a horde of stampeding animals to the heavy machinery paving the Yellow Brick Road — all come together to craft the sonic experience.

The team behind the first Wicked film’s sound is back for For Good. We spoke with supervising sound editor Nancy Nugent Title, supervising music editor Jack Dolman, sound designer/supervising sound editor/re-recording mixer John Marquis, and re-recording mixer Andy Nelson. It was mixed at Warner Bros. in Burbank on Stage 9.

How did it feel to return to the world of Oz? Did Wicked: For Good feel like starting a whole new production, or was it like picking up where you and the team left off?
John Marquis: It was very much like picking up where we left off. The first movie was broken up into eight reels, and when we sat down for the first time, we were all like, “Well, here we go into Reel 9.” It is one continuation of the same story, but now the emotional ante has been upped quite a bit. It was all very familiar. It felt like we were just settling back in.

Nancy Nugent Title: Nothing changed. From the personnel even to the rooms we were working in, everything was the same. We took some time off and then got back to work. For both films, we did the mixing at Warner Bros. in Burbank on Stage 9.

Andy Nelson: That’s exactly right. In fact, on the mixing console itself, I started working from the end of the last reel from a year ago. The process couldn’t have been more straightforward.

Jack Dolman: When we initially began post production on the first film, we were tasked with assembling working versions of both films. Eventually our focus turned exclusively to Part 1 for the remainder of 2024, but we developed some initial familiarity and intuition with both films from the outset. Once the first film wrapped, we immediately began work on Wicked: For Good.

In that sense, it felt like picking up where we had left off, but with a brand-new horizon.

Nugent Title: It was really a blessing. The way we got to approach these two projects rarely happens in the industry. Usually, if there’s a sequel, there are a couple of years in between films. But with the way the production for Wicked was structured, with both parts filmed simultaneously, we just got to keep going, which was really a gift.

How much did your experiences working on the first Wicked inform your approach to Wicked: For Good? Did anything surprise you? Were you met with any challenges that were not present in the production of the first Wicked?
Nugent Title: I learned a lot working on the first Wicked. At the time, when I first started, I had to familiarize myself with the workflow required for a musical. The process was new to me, and I was able to carry the knowledge and experience I gained to the sequel. Everything we did on Wicked informed the process of Wicked: For Good.

Nelson: We established a “language” while working on the first Wicked to determine what the film should sonically be like, and when it came time to work on the next one, we were able to use that same language. We were familiar with the general style and tone of this universe, but I think for John [Marquis], there was a shift in intensity because the story in Wicked: For Good is deeper, richer and fuller. From a sound perspective, the sequel features some startlingly huge sequences, which we didn’t quite have in the first film.

John, you definitely had your hands full on this one.

Marquis: Well, we worked out many of the conceptual bugs and bottlenecks in the first film, so by the time we got to the second, we were all already on the same page and shared very similar sensibilities. And the studio put their trust in us, director Jon M. Chu and the producers to get it done. We felt a real kindred spirit amongst all of us. We felt free working on Wicked, but we felt freer on Wicked: For Good.

But yeah, there is a lot more story – traditional storytelling – in between the songs than there was in the first movie: bigger spectacles. As Andy was alluding to, there’s the cyclone sequence, the winged monkey chase through the forest, and even a whole animal stampede sequence. All the above and more were fun sound design moments. It really felt as though we were upping the ante. Musically, the two films had stark similarities, but we were able to use the deeper story of the second one to our advantage. There was a lot more bite for us to work with. This time, it wasn’t just about the songs.

Dolman: Making a musical of this scale is complex, with all departments working in harmony to present the material in a cohesive way. From a technical standpoint, we were well-positioned to dive into a second film of that same magnitude. I think the most surprising element was how much MORE we needed to lean into the emotions for the second film. If emotion was our North Star on Wicked, it became our superpower on Wicked: For Good.

How much did the pipeline change between Wicked and Wicked: For Good? Did you introduce new software or tools that were not present in the first film?
Marquis: Our workflow essentially remained the same. We weren’t relying on the latest and greatest software and plugins because, at least for me, that’s not what my mixing style required. These technologies and pieces of software are only tools, after all.

It’s mainly about gathering good source material — audio that carries an organic, natural and emotional charge — as opposed to hopping on a computer and using new workflows for the sake of using new workflows.

Dolman: Our techniques for using these tools certainly evolved as we stepped into the second film. One example of this on the music side is how we used Pro Tools to capture individual songs as they expanded over the course of the process. Every element of each song — all vocal takes, pre-record instrumentals, new orchestration demos and final orchestral recordings — could be lined up in their entirety in folders within Pro Tools, allowing all elements to travel with the evolving cut.

Nugent Title: I relied on Kraken to find alts, and I used SpectraLayers from Steinberg to assist with noise reduction. But overall, aside from a couple of advancements that were useful in some instances, we didn’t introduce anything that radically changed the structure of our workflow.

Nelson: We all more or less figured everything out while working on the first Wicked — the way we recorded the orchestra, the mixing style, the use of Dolby Atmos, the sense of how to incorporate the score into the song orchestrations. We didn’t want anything to change because it was working, so if a new toy had come to our attention, we probably would have said no because the tools had to reflect the workflow we created for ourselves.

Were the musical performances recorded live on-set, or did you work with studio recordings?Nelson: Wherever possible, it was live. Going back to Film 1, during preproduction, we were never completely certain of what we could accomplish and how. And keep in mind, Jon Chu shot both films at the same time, so this was essentially one long movie. While we could plan a style in the beginning and try to maintain it throughout the movie, our execution came down to the whims of the performers themselves. You don’t know how everything will unfold until it happens: how the performers sing; how the dance choreography interacts with the sets, costumes and lighting; and whether the sound department can capture everything. And Simon Hayes, our brilliant production mixer, was instrumental in making it happen, as were Cynthia Erivo and Ariana Grande. Wonderful performers.

There’s a lot of movement. There’s a lot of flying and gravity. Everybody was onboard, including Myron Kerstein, our editor, who sat with Jon and helped pick the best takes. Then it was time for our team to come in. Robin Baynton, our vocal editor, worked closely with Nancy to construct and polish all the vocals and dialogue. So, yes, live whenever possible.

Dolman: From the earliest stages of the production, Jon’s desire was for all the vocals to be sung live. As Andy mentioned, thanks to our powerhouse vocalists and Simon’s innovative recording techniques, we were able to achieve this. Having live vocals provided the most emotional performances possible, allowing for a character’s decision to sing to feel like a natural extension of their emotional arc at every moment.

Describe an aspect of your work that the audience might not notice on first listen.
Marquis: We were satisfied with the seamless integration of the music and worldbuilding. There is a lot taken for granted regarding the mundane sounds versus spectacular musical sequences. The “tappity tap” of Glinda’s footsteps or the strength of Elphaba’s boots on the ground — these are sounds that are seemingly mundane but have quite a bit to say emotionally.

We were all leaning into the ambience and the more natural sounds of this world. You can’t really take any of it for granted, especially when working on a musical. We’re tuning the resonance of the wind itself to make it harmonious with the score and the songs. We’re making sure the percussive movement is in tempo with the music’s rhythm. Everything that makes these worlds come alive is something that feeds into the music, whether vocal or not. All elements are supporting each other. We’re not tuning out the rest of Oz when the singing starts.

Nelson: The songs are story. Every song has a purpose and a reason, with the lyrics telling that story the same way dialogue would. Transitioning in and out of song isn’t us saying, “Oh, we’re in a musical.” It was always to further the story, and I think John’s work in sound design really helped capture that narrative movement. We were all hand in hand for everything, and I think that’s why the final product has a fluid feel to it. It’s all because of the story at the end of the day.

Dolman: One thing I’m especially proud of is how we handled the transition between the songs and the underscore. We spent a considerable amount of time figuring out how to hand off different instruments and orchestral elements in a way that allows songs to commence naturally. This does go unnoticed, but that’s the entire point. The last thing you want as an audience member is to have that feeling of, “Oh, I think I feel a song coming on.” Rather, you want songs to sneak up on the audience and blossom as a natural extension of the characters singing them. I’m proud of how we achieved this on Wicked: For Good, most especially in the intimate and fragile way the title song, “For Good,” begins toward the end of the film.

Nugent Title: Alice Brooks, our cinematographer, mentioned to me that our team and the color team were both pretty much competing for Jon’s time. They were color-timing while we were in the middle of final mixing, but one week, they took some time off to allow us to make some headway on the mix. When we delivered the mix, Alice had said that our work made them rethink their approach to certain scenes on the color-timing stage. All the departments were very open like that. One can easily influence the other, and that collaboration was encouraged.

At what stage in the production do you begin coordinating audio and visuals? For instance, do you account for potential diegetic audio sources, or is that the director’s responsibility?
Marquis: We got a lot of derivatives and comps from Jon. We receive the script, we discuss it, we head to the picture editing suite, and we sit down to watch some scenes. Myron, our picture editor, would hand off a version of the movie to us with roughed-in ideas of where the sound would be. His assistants would have put together some rough sound effects, giving us a spine to start building from.

So, we were having those conversations near the beginning. Jon was very much into having us on as early as possible because the sound was such an integral part of the film’s storytelling. You wouldn’t want to wait until the last minute to put something together.

Dolman: We had been planning and coordinating audio and visuals during preproduction. The songs needed to be pre-recorded with specific tempo maps so that when it came time to shoot the sequences — and have the performers sing live during production — we knew that our click tracks on-set would be able to carry all the way through post production. Having a rock-solid rhythmic and tempo foundation allows a musical to be made with precision, and we took this fact very seriously from the outset.

Nugent Title: It was interesting. They had provided us both the script and the soundtrack from the original Broadway shows, so while we were reading through the lines, the script would suddenly ask us to listen to the following song. It gave us a sense of “moving along.”

I think it’s important for us to read scripts on the editorial side ahead of time. We know what to expect, and it lets us know if there is anything specific we might want to prep ahead of time for recording.

From a sound design perspective, are there any notable scenes you wish to highlight?
Marquis: Every song is a tentpole. “No Good Deed” was firing on all cylinders, then you’ve got “For Good” at the end, which is so minimal, pure and subdued but also scorched with emotion. They’re both showcase scenes, albeit for wildly different reasons. But beyond the songs, sonically, you also have the cyclone, the animal stampede… pick your favorite.

Nugent Title: Cynthia Erivo’s voice is what makes “No Good Deed” as good as it is. She was 99.9% the reason why that scene worked so well. We were adding a little extra to what was arguably already a near-perfect scene. She’s just so powerful.

Nelson: We were filling in the gaps as needed, but Cynthia just drives entire scenes. You get to “For Good,” and it’s like we had to get out of the way. The emotions and the characters were so potent that it felt like even being near all that was intrusive. Still, I think we did a fantastic job putting together these dynamics that helped bridge the very big and the very tiny moments of this story.

Dolman: She was also fantastic in the opening number, “Every Day More Wicked.” It’s a scene I’m especially proud of. It is enormously complex, reintroducing the audience to all the characters, catching them up on what has transpired since the first film rolled credits, and weaving together several of composer Stephen Schwartz’s musical themes over the course of the number. All the while, the sound design was in lockstep with the music, from the sonic elements of the choreography to train whistles in harmony with the music, as well as vast crowds marching and cheering in sync with the music. It’s one heck of a musical sequence, with all departments working together, firing on all cylinders.

Even if people have not seen the first Wicked, I think this number will still engage them almost immediately, pulling them right into the magic of Oz.

Jake Bourke is a screenwriter based in Boston. His focus is on short-form episodic television and original pilots. Check out his site here.